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« Fingers Crossed | Main | Happy LIVESTRONG Day »

May 15, 2007

Comments

CMehl

But all Floyd's team can do is attack the science--that's all they have to defend the positive test. They can't just convince people he's a good guy and would never do that, so they have to pick apart the procedures and the casual way some science is just accepted instead of researched. I think that's why it seems like picking at it: they have to make it fall apart.

A FL story for you guys: TdG 2006, Brasstown Bald. There is a long line of portapotties and I saw FL's mom waiting just in front of me. She's easy to spot of course, with her little hair bonnet. So I introduced myself as a journalist, told her how much I'd enjoyed interviewing her son over the years, stuff like that, and finished by saying that she should be very proud of the fine son she raised. She laughed and said, "Well he made his own choices so I can't take credit there, but he is a good boy!" So yesterday when I saw pictures of her and FL's dad in the courtroom I thought how lucky they are to all have each other in such a trying time. It was very cool that they came to support him, to show their love for him.

And who watched DWTS? Oh my gosh, I was so excited by the dancing last night--it was incredible! Too bad Apolo didn't get that perfect score on the last number that Len thought was raunchy--I thought it was steamin' hot, baby!!! The top four on the show are all amazing this time, it will be sad to see who goes home tonight, but I am still rootin' for Apolo to take the final win. His birthday is next Tuesday!!!

Camille

Cathy, I agree with you although I understand how Sara is seeing it. I think that reporter could have been justifying her own confusion and frustration over needing to report the details and maybe she herself has already convicted him in her own mind (as so many others have). The fact is, if even a *few* of these lab anomalies pointed out were valid, it would be enough to cast doubt on the original positive result. But if Floyd only concentrated on a FEW of those errors, USADA might be able to somehow seem to disprove them and then BOOM, case lost. Well, as someone said (Susie? Janann?), I'm going to think of this as Stage 16 and hope FL's side starts tipping the scales their way. I washed my Free Floyd shirt last night and am wearing it again today, and will do so all week, just as a knock-on-wood type gesture. I can't keep my fingers and toes crossed all the time -- muscle cramps ya know...

strbuk

From my viewpoint Team Landis is heaving everything and the kitchen sink at USADA because they know that;' precisely what USADA will do to them. I mean come ion Greg LeMond will testify against Floyd on Thursday? So they need to hit them with all they have, it's the shotgun approach. And thanks for the TbV plug! All my work on the Roundup is not in vain! :-)

Paula (strbuk)

Julie

Amen, Sara! Exactly what I was thinking watching Suh yesterday. That stuff may play to a jury (tho, I've been on a jury, and didn't go for it then, either), but I don't think it's at all helping with the arbs. I'm hoping they figure that out quick and follow Jacobs' tone for the rest of the hearing. I can't bear to think of what Suh has planned for the closing.

Yes, Cathy, they have to attack the science, but it's a question of style, and Suh's is too over-the-top for this setting.

Arlene continues to rock!

Here's the thing, I can see the arbs spending 10 days with Floyd and getting a clue that he's innocent, I don't know how you can't, but they have to base the decision on the evidence, not what their gut tells them. So what do they do if the science isn't strong enough? I don't know, I'm still wondering about the Honchar scenario, it would certainly explain a lot, like why both sides are so convinced of their truth.

Saw the Idol finalists on Jay Leno last night, all sweet as usual. Fun fact - Blake has never had a cup of coffee in his life. Taylor Hicks performed, he's looking slim these days.

Julie

Paula - thanks so much for all you do! I know, Greg LeMond, aghhh! The only thing I'm looking less forward to than Suh's closing. :P I think the cross should go something like this: "Mr. LeMond, is it true you're a bitter old whack job who doesn't have a clue?" Am I wrong about that, Sara, did you get a different impression, or maybe it's not proper for you to say at this point?

Camille

Julie, re: Greg Lemond, that was ....

****** CLASSIC!!!!! *******

Sara Best

First of all, welcome Paula! You do amazing work at TBV and I can't tell you how much we all appreciate it. We would be lost without you. Thank you.

Julie, when I interviewed LeMond he came across to me as a nice guy who feels sorry for himself. I think that LeMond believes that no one else did it like he did it and he's a little bitter that's it's over for him and a little hurt that no one's paying any attention to him anymore.

He was warm and friendly to everyone in the room and I really enjoyed talking to him, but bitter isn't a bad word to describe him at all.

However, let me play devil's advocate for one moment and remind everyone that Floyd's team has listed Eddie Merckx as a potential witness for their side so two are playing at the game of throwing the big cycling names around.

Theresa

Suh might have to dial back the trial image; but I didn't get to watch anything on Courtnews.tv. I think they are doing pretty good, although I respect Sara and Julie's point of view, because they've been there (in similar ways) Julie's been in a courtroom and your views are firsthand.
That being said, I think they have to be guns blazing because the USADA has stuff Team Floyd never saw. But, I have cringed when Suh is being so aggressive in front of the arbs.

btw, I watched the Survivor finale Sunday, even tho I'd never watched any of it; and really enjoyed it. I didn't realize Earl was from KC,KS! And I agree with Yau-man, Dreamz is smart! Crazy like a fox!!

Theresa

I forgot to welcome Paula!! One of the hardworking, souls that makes TBV tick!! And boy, do we appreciate you!! We would be floundering around the internet if it was for you!! If finding some of this stuff at all!!

Debby

Rant Your Head Off also has good commentary -- when combined with TBV I get a much better sense of what the significant points of the science are. The speakers have me for only so long, and then when they start talking peaks and drops on the chroma-something, esp. since we can't see what they're looking at, I'm gone. :)

This is the equivalent of arguing science papers/research at a university (with much higher stakes of course), and to take a big picture view, a lot of doctors can't even agree on treatment programs for cancer or what causes a certain disease, so trying to get the experts to agree on what happened in the tests is going to be hard. However, if what is at stake is whether or not the lab followed procedure, I think that would be easier to prove. I think on TBV there was a note that the head of the WADA lab in Rome is assisting the panel with the technical points, so even they need help with the science.

Another thing that occurs to me is how often people get wrong diagnoses from their doctors. If science isn't perfect in those situations, why do these lawyers think they can prove it is in this case? How many people have gotten scary test results from doctors, and have had to go back for other tests to be sure? USADA doesn't want to admit that, but it's a reality of life that doctors/lab techs make mistakes. Please forgive me for stating the obvious.

All that sad, Sara, I'm fearful that you and Gwen are right, that Maurice is being too overbearing and putting people off before they can really listen to what he's saying. Hopefully he will tone it down.

And I want to say that I just love Arlene Landis too and hope that I can tell her that in person someday. TBV posted a link on Sunday to the report of the fundraiser in PA, and there is a photo of her riding a bike with her dress and lace cap on. She is so positive and faithful and gives me hope that in spite of everything the truth will prevail.

Debby

Welcome Paula, and THANK YOU so much for all you do.

I say that if USADA gets LeMond, then Floyd should get Lance to testify for him. "In all our time on U.S. Postal, I never saw him take so much as a candy from a grandmother on the sidelines," etc. *That* would be something to see.

Matt

HOW in the WORLD can GL have ANY testimony that is RELEVANT to the proceedings at hand? What is he going to say: "Well, I BELIEVE he cheated"? Give me a BREAK!

Julie

Ah, yes, but Eddy does at least have some first-hand knowledge of Floyd. I guess we'll have to see just what they're each going to testify about. I do try to remember that Greg is a person, and did some great things on a bike, and the shooting was a horrible thing. But with his statements these days, he doesn't make it easy!

Julie

Matt - I would guess it wouldn't really be about Floyd, but more like the Joe Papp testimony, about Greg's own experiences. (Which doesn't mean you can't still argue the relevance!)

Yvette

Ya, I have to admit that I'm lazy and rely on places like here, TBV (VeloNews & Daily Peloton when I have more time) and MD to get my info on cycling.

I think Sara does have a point--most people I know who don't follow cycling (and I'm probably being redundant here) just figure that all cyclists are dopers and Landis just has more money to "fight" it. In general, this situation isn't going to change many opinions.

But for the sake of cycling, I think Floyd is presenting a worthy and important case.

CMehl

I can't get over the fact that Lemond is going to testify against Floyd. What the hell is wrong with him? I truly am stunned that he would do this. I was pretty sure I disliked him intensely prior to today, but now I am certain my feelings toward him now fall in the "h-word" column. I can't believe it, I really can't. What can he say that pertains to this particular case? Julie, your legal-minded thoughts?

susie b

THERESA! Dreamz is an IDIOT! The guy lied so much that he forgot what he was saying half the time. And the absolute DUMBEST thing he could have done is gone back on his word to Yau-man, especially (you didn't see this) as on all the "solo talks to the camera" he went on & on about how he wanted to be a role model for his son by living up to that deal, that he was an honorable man, how much he respected Yau-man, etc,etc. It is nauseating! Dreamz hurt himself in multiple ways. 1st, NO jury member was going to vote for him after his BETRAYAL (& the guy does not even KNOW what the freakin word means, as PROVED on the Reunion show!) so it was FUTILE to not give Yau-man the immunity. 2nd, if he HAD lived up to his word & been a Man of HONOR, he would have been lauded AROUND the ENTIRE COUNTRY! He would have gotten speaking engagements for freakin YEARS! People would have remembered he "gave up his shot at the million dollars to be a man of honor & wasn't that something considering where he came from,etc" (even when in reality he gave up nothing as illustrated above, but hey, it's the IMAGE that counts...) Because he would have been considered a HERO, people would have been falling over themselves to GIVE him stuff, like a house! He was an idiot! And that people are now calling him smart is making me NUTS!

And why I watch this show season after season, I DON'T KNOW! Because it almost always makes me crazy & depressed about the whole FRIGGIN HUMAN RACE! And the fact that you can win a million dollars on a show that brings out the WORST in humanity & you barely get over half that for winning a TRUE test of endurance, courage & resolve - the freakin Tour de France, well, it makes me insane! I need an intervention.

Greg Lemond should be on Survivor. He's got the qualifications.... You might remember that I started watching the Tour de France in 1984 & Greg was about the only American I knew much about for several years, until the 7-11 team & they were rarely on CBS' coverage. I thrilled to his 2nd place in 1985 (where he should have won) & was over the moon when he won in 86. I cried when I heard about the hunting accident & then when he came back to win in 89 & 90, I thought he was a true hero. I collect special Sports Illustrateds (mostly Olymics issues) & for the last 18 years, Greg's Sportsman of the Year & TDF issues were in my SI "special collection". When he started feuding with Lance, I was SO upset & tried to hide my head in the sand - I could'nt bear to see another hero fall. If Lemond testifies against Floyd & says anything damaging AT ALL, I will rip the SI issues into little pieces & have them Fed-exed to his freakin house. And I will cry.

Yvette

It is frustrating because LeMond was the first reason I started watching cycling. I had always taken a fancy to France, and then when he wowed me as a teen with his performances at the TdF, I "fell in love" with cycling, France and LeMond. As Julie said, it's not easy anymore to like him, and it irritates me that he has spoiled my view of him with what appears to be desperation of some kind.

It doesn't help that people I know (once again) that don't follow cycling will look at him as a bearer of the torch, of the way it "used" to be, not aware that doping was around back when he raced. He still is the original American cyclist and has "credibility" among the uninitiated (not that I'm an expert, just interested).

Obviously, we all want a clean sport, as he insistently points out, it's just the way he comes across that gets to me, and what appear to be his motives.

Yvette

Susie, great segueway from Survivor to LeMond--it fits!

Theresa

Thanks, Susie, for the heads up on Dreamz!lol I think Yau-Man should have won, but I liked Earl too. This is from reading you and Camille, and watching only Sunday night.

Yes, I love Rant too! And he's a Missouri boy! And Org always has great stuff to say!

Gotta set my DVR; with Floyd's hearing, I can't forget these important things, like AI!!

susie b

I have a couple questions for anybody who might know.

1) I've gotten myself confused, but WHICH group actually suspends a cyclist for doping? Their country's Anti-doping org (ex, USADA), their country's cycling org (USA Cycling), or the UCI? The reason I ask is I read the Boulder Report on Bicycling.com yesterday & the guy says 'WHY are we so bent out of shape over USADA asking Floyd to give up Lance', because "it's IN the WADA CODE to offer a deal to get more information" to combat the evils of doping. So, that's why I'm now confused - WADA doesn't hand down the suspensions, right? So how could THEY offer a lesser sentence? Ok, so the country's ADA is like a subsidiary of WADA & abides by their code, so I guess they would be the ones to do it, but then where does Pat McQuaid of UCI come off saying "absolutely no deal for Basso"? And where does the country's specific sport organization (ex-USA Cycling) factor in? 'Hep me, Hep me, Hep' she cried.

2nd question. I've never read a WHOLE lot about Tyler Hamilton or his case. I've known of him, read some articles & thought he was a nice guy & am still impressed that he not only finished the TDF with a broken collar bone, but finished just off the podium I think! I don't care if he was shooting morphine, that is STILL impressive! Anyway, Juliet Maceur of the NY Times wrote Sunday that USADA will bring up anything to discredit the rider in a doping case & that they brought up in HIS hearing that Tyler evidently lied about graduating from the Univ. of Colorado. My question is - where did Tyler say he was a graduate? In multiple interviews? In the official "press pack bio info"? This shocks me for a couple reasons. One, why would Tyler lie about that - it's not like a college degree helps you gain status in the cycling world. 2nd, it's a stupid thing to lie about if you're famous, as it is easy to check! I keep thinking there has to be more to the story - like he took courses there & some Phonak press person exaggerated & he never had them fix the error, or it was too late to fix it. Anybody know about this?

susie b

And I keep forgetting to say that I think Apollo was ROBBED last night! I tried for 40 minutes to vote & only got 3 calls connected. When I tried to start again at 10:00, it says voting was closed! I was furious!

And I almost forgot! Tonight is AI! I'm not quite as excited now my girl Lakisha is gone. Matt, you better VOTE or your girl Melinda may be out after tonight. Blake is now getting all the little girls' vote & Jordin appeals to the teens more than Melinda (I think), so get those recuperated fingers ready to do some dialin'!

Back to DWTS for a minute. I am so glad Apolo is doing the show! I've watched & liked him in the last 2 Olympics & read about him in SI, but never really felt I knew his personality, let alone 'knew him'. After DWTS, I'm a MUCH bigger fan! I think all the couples remaining are good, but I think Apolo has the best technique hands down. And I'm SHOCKED that he's so good & it makes me smile - a much needed commodity lately!

Debby

Susieb -- I love your posts. I'm glad I'm not the only one that cries over these things. I like your plan wrt: Fed-exing LeMond. Rip a piece for me too.

Question for you: do you wear the phonak colors (yellow and green) in support of Floyd, or not, because they fired him? I can't make up my mind about this. I would wear my Ride of a Lifetime shirt, but once FL signed it for me, it went under glass, including the pen he signed it with.

I guess I could do orange, seeing as the orange and white are in his jersey. :)

Be back later...

CMehl

I don't think FL has bad feelings toward Phonak--they did what they had to do, and when I went to the Team BMC presentation at ToC FL and Andy R were having a great time together--I think they have retained a friendship, so yellow and green would be fine I'll bet. (except those were god-awful kits, weren't they??!!)

Susie I love your plan to send Lemond your ripped up magazines....wtf is wrong with him? If I see him at Interbike again I am going to give him a piece of my mind (but only a small piece cuz I need all the rest).

Going to pick up the pizza so can spend the evening watching AI, DWTS and Louis Vitton America's Cup Challenger race (from 5:30AM this morn--any other sailors out there?) Apolo rocks, I want to know more about him--in fact I would like to adopt him quite frankly. His personality is adorable. And Julieanne, lord she is so good at age 18, can't imagine what she will be like in 10 years! And did you see the judge Len dancing? He was kicking it!!

CMehl

Oh! And it says on TBV that FL has a different YELLOW tie for every day of the trial! I love that--hey, maybe yellow is a good color to wear in his honor.

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