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« Why I Hate Bicycling Magazine | Main | Endings »

May 23, 2007

Comments

Matt

How AWESOME to have an EXPERT sink WADA's/USADA's case! (if it matters..we will shortly find out if the decision had already been made). I have my FREE FLOYD T-Shirt out and ready, AND my fingers crossed! It would be GREAT to have his case dismissed, AND have sanctions and such imposed on the LNDD for their PURE CRAP procedures/handling/LEAKS/etc! Wouldn't THAT be something!

On to AI...Sara, you are surely right (as to the producers 'setting up' someone to win). That song they had them both sing was custom made for Jordin's style...and poor Blake, could the backup singers on that song possibly drown him out any better? I think not! I did enjoy his Maroon 5 song though...but Jordin surely stole the night. And in a case of wishful thinking, I can't help but wonder what the MIGHTY MELINDA would have done last night! I think she would have blown the doors off the place and had Jordin skulking away in silent retreat. Oh well..we will never know. Blake seems a very upbeat guy and will take it in stride, and hopefully has had enough exposure to get his career on the fast-track! And as I had never watched AI till this season, I had never seen Daughtry before...but I agree: what the hell is up w/ the eyeliner? Nice song though!

susie b

Any man who wears a purple shirt is ALRIGHT with me! The fact that he did blow holes in USADA's case made me wonder if he's married...:)

Actually, I've got quite a few crushes lately - TBV, Bill Hue, the German Doktor whose name is too long to remember but who can wag a finger in MY enemies' faces ANY time....:) But don't fret Floyd, I've got enough love to go 'round!

Unfortunately, I missed most of the AI Final! I did see some of two songs by both Jordin & Blake. I think Jordin will win, but *I* will never buy a CD unless she stops that, yes, susie WHINES ONE MORE TIME, vibrato! :) I knoooowwww what you're thinkin' - suze, is your LAST NAME really 'LeMond'?

I did see the excruciating TWO hour Finale of DWTS. And YAHOOOOO! Apolo WINS! Yippeeeee. I had my phone on redial for 75 minutes Mon night & only ONE call got through! I was furious. But now I feel Alllll better! What I think that show should do though is put the Finale in a bigger arena like AI does & have at least a few of the pros do some awesome dance numbers.

Someone asked yesterday what we'll talk about now that AI is over. Well, So You Think You Can Dance starts next week (as someone mentioned on the previous post, was it Julie?) & I LOVE that show! I loved the winner last year - Benji, & I loved his little female cousin who also got into the Final Four, but gosh, her name escapes me at the moment! Plus, that new Mark Burnett reality show starts - Pirate Master.

And then before we know it, the Tour de France will be here! Matt - are you still going to England in July to, uh, "work" (wink,wink)? And while I'm asking you questions, are your 'trips down south' helping you any? The fact that you are so active but are in chronic pain just amazes me!

Theresa

I know I come across as an old baby boomer who doesn't know anything about the current music scene(and I don't you're right!!), BUT, due to my first Spinning classes I ever took, I fell in love with that album of Maroon 5 (and probably will buy their new one!!) And I agree, Sara, Blake did a beautiful job, I couldn't take my eyes off of him! He tryed so hard on the last song, to make it more than it was; but Jordin was in HER element, tears and all!! I guess I'm glad Melinda was gone, because it would have wounded my deeply to have Jordin outshine my Melinda(which I'm saying that she could have done, just because she 17yr old etc.....). I wouldn't be surprised if Melinda's first album is with one of Simon's companys!! Randy's jacket looked somehow,"cool" on him, but I don't think anyone else could have worn it, and Paula was perfect in her ruffles! My co-worker was channeling surfing and landed on Qvc, and guess who has a line of jewelery!!? So, I really paid attention to the jewelrey last night! Simon was Simon. I think he'd be dissapointed if he didn't get all the booo'sss! He'd feel like his job wasn't done.
Please excuse all grammatical errors and my run-on sentences......

Dr Davis. Who I referred to last night as Dr. Scott. He's great! And a real threat(just like Floyd's other scientists), to the lassiez-faire attitude that WADA uses regarding the LNDD's work. It was nice to hear that the USADA scientist were not happy campers!! No more "eye-balling" when we have someone's livihood and life on the line!! I slept much better last night. Better than I have since the hearing started. I'm going to be behind today; but by Friday when I get back from KC, all the chaos should be over, including my family obligations with my sister's kids!

Did I tell you guys my younger nephews are on a baseball team going to Williamsport PA, to play 6 games on the field they play the Little LeagueWorld Series on?? Plus the older one graduating, my sister is about ready to throw in the towel, but she can't!!

Theresa

Oh, I think alot of unlikely "stars" have been created by the hearing!! Bill Hue, has had one marriage proposal, and I've told him I love him at least twice, and Herr Doktor, and Goldberger(?), etc., all have new groupies who think they are just the coolest guys around!! Scientists ROCK! (When they don't work for WADA!!) It's like they have to sacrifice something to become a good WADA citizen...or drone!

Matt

Susie, my England trip has been pushed off (AGAIN)..it's now 5 Sept to 6 Aug..so I'll MISS any chance of seeing a tour stage (was hoping to make Paris for the FINALE...would have been total chaos but how cool to be there for the laps and final podium!) Oh well..we still might be able to get our bikes over to France and ride a stage...(would have to be one in the northwest part of the country...due to time constraints)...but we will see. Just riding around the middle of England for a month in the evenings/weekends will still be pretty cool and I'm looking forward to it (have already done some surfing and found a few 'group rides' in the area...joining in on a few of those with the locals would be AWESOME!)

And yes, the trips down south are helping...though I feel like I was in a car wreck the first 2 days or so after each treatment (thats what it's supposed to be like the good Dr. says..thats how you know it's working). The good news is that my neck has hurt for SO LONG (26 years, since 'the incident') that even the treatment isn't that big a deal..pain is pain, and I can ALMOST ignore it...just like I have been doing for a LONG time now. Only on BAD days is it a problem. And biking/swimming don't seem to aggravate it...and the Dr says to keep it up (though I was pretty sore after that Century ride back in march!) So all in all I'm very optomistic about a large percent reduction in the pain (on hopefully a PERMENANT basis!).

I wonder how long we will have to wait for a decision on THE HEARING? Floyd must be a pile of nerves...I sure would be! And no matter which way the decision goes, the other side will appeal...so we have THAT to look forward to! (AAAHHHHHHHHH!)

Debby

Sorry to be missing for a few days...little matter of trying to find a place to live! :)

Cathy, thanks for your report from the battlefield, I mean, courtroom. I'm glad to hear that Floyd & Amber & his parents seem to be doing well. I'm really glad they know we're all here supporting them however we can.

Matt, I'm coming in late to the conversation and sorry to hear you are in pain, but I hope that these treatments are going to be a big help for you!

Are you all torn about the TdeF? I want to watch, but I don't want to watch. I'm a little like Camille (at least I think it was Camille) who talked about turning your head away sometimes. After LeMond's testimony I felt like someone punched me in the stomach and I had to lie down. I didn't want to have to go on like nothing happened, though Malibu is on the opposite side of the coast from me. It was as real as if it happened in my living room. So, I'm not sure about watching the Tour, though I feel as if we have to support the remaining cyclists or the sport will go completely down, and they and their families have to eat too.

Camille

Debby, (and yes, I'm the head-turner) thankfully I didn't see the Greg LeMond interview. And I feel sure that if I'd seen it, no matter how I think I feel about him merely from what I've heard, that I'd feel deeply disturbed by it. It's just a little too close to home to think about how that kind of thing affects a person forever, in every way. And then I'd have felt disturbed that he was even put on the stand to talk about all that.

Talking about feeling deeply disturbed reminds me of a show I was watching one time that followed junkies on the streets in NY, or LA or somewhere. The showed a woman pull out her needle and shoot up heroin right there as she was talking to the camera guy. I'll never get over how that affected me... just freaks me out... I can't even stand to watch it on The Sopranos when Cristopher would do it, even if he was only acting. It's not so much the needle as thinking about living like that all your life... whew.

I'm making progress -- I changed two "justs" to "merely" and "simply." Keep pushing... always! :)

Janann

I was wondering where you had gone, Debby! So....do you have a place to live? You've mentioned bits and pieces in previous posts (maybe I missed some). How did this all come about?

There is no question for me. I've GOT to watch the TdF! As I have already told Cat, my husband often catches me watching the morning AND evening broadcasts! During Lance's last Tour I was watching a stage while in labor and the nurses at the hospital laughed when they came in the following morning and we had it on in the hospital room. ACK! Its a sickness (and I love it)! You must watch Debby!

Having said that -- I have been almost completely ignoring the Giro this year, with Floyd's hearing taking up all of my time. Somehow in my mind it matters whether or not I'm watching and keeping track of the procedings. Might not be rational, but it helps *me* to at least know what's going on.

They've just taken a break before closing arguements. GOSH -- I'm so N-E-R-V-O-U-S for Floyd! My fingernails are already gone :)

susie b

Darn it! I can't get into the afternoon session again! Yesterday, I did what ya'll suggested & it worked like a charm. I tried it again today but after waiting what seemed like HOURS for lunch to be over & still no picture, I clicked over to TBV & it had started! And now there's that MAXimum connections screen! I also had trouble with most of the morning feed - I had audio but the video was really like stop-motion shots til late. Anybody else have that problem?

Matt - I'm going to have to have a talk with your boss! Don't they know they're messing up OUR plans?! :) At least you are doing better physically & that's good to hear! That car trip alone would do me in... How much longer do you have to keep making those trips? How many miles are you putting on your car?

Oh, I just remembered something I saw this morning - A motorcycle with a sidecar. What surprised me is that the bike wasn't that big & it was traveling on a 55mhp road. I'd have to be either unconscious or drugged to ride in a sidecar 6 inches off the ground on a 55mph road during Washington rush-hour!


But back to Floyd's case. I haven't been able to read ALL the testimony of Floyd's witnesses yet, I've just read the msm articles & some of TBV & Bill's summaries. But from what I read & heard myself (but to be honest, I really couldn't follow what they were saying, I just listened for intonation,etc), I thought it sounded really good for Floyd. However, many of the TBV commenters still don't think it's enough! Floyd's "guys" sounded adamant! MUCH more so than USADA's "guys"!

And if, if, things don't work out the way WE're hoping, how long before it goes to CAS? Would that be public too? That's in Switzerland? Gosh, that sounds soooooo expensive for Floyd! And thanks to Will (sorry Will, but you DID screw up, big time), I'm afraid the FFF won't be getting NEAR what they got before in contributions & Floyd for sure will go bankrupt. Can you imagine how much those lawyers are charging just for all the hours in 'court'? Then, you've got all their expenses & those for the witnesses!

And Janann - I'm with you on the Giro. Since last Monday, my work has suffered as I've spent so much time reading about Floyd's case that I couldn't possibly even glance at the Giro! I did look up the stages at the beginning & saw that the 1st real important stage after the TTT was the 1st day in the Mts - stage 12 - tommorrow! So, maybe I'll pay a little attention now that the Hearing will be over.

Camille

Just listened to the whole Young final arguments. Here comes Suh now, the sound just came back on. GO MAURICE!!!!!!

Debby

Susieb -- work?

Janann -- we've been wanting to move for a while. Tried to sell the house last fall with no offers. Put it up about two weeks ago and received some good offers. We're now getting ready to negotiate the inspection report (ugh. Roof. ugh). We found a house we like but we can't put in an offer until we know how the negotiations are going to turn out. You know my loyalties when I'm stuck at a table with the real estate agents, then they get up to leave, and I say, oh thank goodness, now I can get back to TBV!!

Camille -- I haven't even tried to get on the video. I don't think I could watch the USADA lawyers and witnesses dance with the truth like that. The fact that justice has already been so twisted makes me afraid and nauseous. The gem from Barnet -- "you SAID you had everything you needed" right after Suh said they didn't get some of the docs was straight out of a horror flick as far as I'm concerned. "The truth is what we say it is."

Theresa -- tell us in your cheery optimism that things are going to be OK, please.

susie b

Well, I got in right as Davis left the stand so I got to hear all of USADA's closing. Too bad for me. How Floyd can sit there & not want to start screaming is beyond me. I thought Young was PATHETIC! I just looked at TBV & even Bill Hue is over his "man-crush"! :)

And once & for freakin all - if all that shit that was thrown at Floyd for MONTHS - from the msm, some cycling fans, from people who do not know you but tell the media they know you doped 'cause you confessed to them when you never said any such thing, came down on ANYONE except a SAINT or a comatose victim, who would not have lashed out at LEAST once?!! I would have been screaming from the 1st day! These people who keep saying how Floyd "threatened" GL with the DPF post make me crazy!

I DID love the question Campbell asked Young at the end - if the anti-doping rules are supposed to PROTECT the athlete, then why can't anyone who works for WADA testifiy when there are mistakes in a Lab? GO CHRIS!

Unfortunately, I have to leave now so will not be able to hear Suh more than a few minutes. If anyone else can write up their opinion, I'd appreciate! I love TBV for detail, but I'm hoping for a simple observation - such as, Suh kicked ass because he said .... & IF there is JUSTICE in this world of ours then, 'Floyd Looks-Good-in-Leather Landis' will be back in the peloton before the year is up!

Julie

TdF - absolutely, I'm with Jan (love that labor story!), I have to watch every ounce. There is so much I love about cycling that doesn't have to do with who is winning, or by how much, and that's all still there for me. Plus I think Levi is going to do well, and that would be so cool! I have been following the Giro, and it's been exciting and different, no dominance yet, older guys winning, it's great. Sadly, probably means it's the cleanest we've seen in a while, but I'll take it.

Jan, I also watch morning and evening! Must have full Phil and Paul, so I tape the morning, while I'm at work, and will watch it before the evening starts, or watch it during the first airing of evening and tape the evening re-air, so I can fast-forward through it the next day to get the extra features they don't have in the morning (interviews, etc.)

Julie

susie - I couldn't get in yesterday or today, even with my old tried and true methods. I even started wondering if it was a USADA conspiracy, to prevent us from seeing the best evidence on Floyd's side. ;P But I also didn't try too hard for closing arguments - it's like presidential debates, I have a hard time sitting through them, too much BS and spin in general.

CAS would not be public, and it would take place in the US, but under Swiss law. (according to someone at TBV, maybe Bill) Probably looking at 2007 into 2008, so no Floyd back in the peloton this year.

Just from the descriptions at TBV, Young's closing was painful, all those references to Will, my goodness whatever would they have done without that? :Ppppppp

Debby

Dying for Judge Hue's take on Maurice's closing. From what I could tell, it sounded good in the transcript!

catherine

Hi ladies, and boy am I glad you are! Have you checked out the comments on TBV? I've gone a couple of times, and those boys are MEAN. Some of the comments even get removed by the administrator (do the contributers have regular jobs? if so, when do they have the time to work?).

What I love the most are the pro riders who keep pipping up that they "know" everyone dopes, but they never say who they are. If those same gentleman (using the term loosely) feel so strongly about Lemond's coming out to fight doping, and feel it is wrong to dope, then why don't they join the fray and offer up a good fight against drugs instead of name calling while hiding behind their computer? Certainly no one should jeopardize their career on a blog site, but what have they done to really support the sport? What are they bringing to the table to "clean it up?"


I also now understand what a troll is....anyone know the etymology of the term?

*sigh* I couldn't get into the videos last evening, and now they say the "Activex control not found." I guess I won't see anything after Floyd's testimony on 5/21.

Does anyone know what the conversation after the closings meant? Final documents? How long will it take? Sounds like weeks. Oh, my husband just told me it means each side puts every point and arguement together in a document, what each side believes/argues and why -supported by case law- so the judges have a summary and don't have to do all the summary and research themselves. He said usually you stay up a few days and nights, to get it together.

Julie

Thank goodness for AI, I needed some pure fun this evening. Gladys Knight rocks. And so does Green Day. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

Meanwhile, over at Cyclingnews, Rolf Aldag. That one hurts, a lot. As I'm sure it does to any of you who have also seen Hell on Wheels. And if you haven't seen Hell on Wheels, why the "hell" not? Go, right now, put it on your Netflix queue. I'm going to wait and see what exactly he has to say tomorrow to comment further, but it made me cry tonight. And so it goes...

Janann

HI all! Julie I'm so glad that I'm not the only 'crazy' watching the Tour twice a day :)

I was able to get in on the video feed today and saw almost all of the closing arguments (had to leave for rehearsal, so missed the very end). Young's was extremely difficult to watch. I told my husband that they would've had to give me a valium (at the anti-doping hearing!) to enable me to sit there while someone tried to completely attack my character. Floyd looked very intense whenever they showed him, but I was impressed with how he can calmly sit through what must have been painful to listen to. They keep focusing on the 'threat' posted by Floyd on DPF. Come ON! I was reading DPF at the time that all of that was happening. It was IMO simply a reaction to everything that was being thrown at him from the press and our favorite EX Tdf champ. He was frustrated and angry. Susie is right -- I'd have been saying things a lot worse than that much more frequently!! Young almost completely focused on Floyd's character and brought in a couple of new arguments that were not contained in the hearing. He completely denied any ISL violations and seemed to be thrilled with the quality of the lab work.

Susie -- Suh rocked IMO! After about 10 min. I told my husband that I was happy with how Floyd spent my FFF contribution. He focused on the science (thank god) and detailed the variety of ways in which the testing process was flawed as conducted for this case. He had what seemed to me to be VERY convincing arguments (I *know* that I'm biased) and focused heavily on violations of the ISL, explaining that USADA didn't even attempt to prove that the mistakes hadn't caused the adverse finding. Suh spoke sharply at times, but always with authority and with respect for the panel. I thought he did a fantastic job!!!!

Its going to be INCREDIBLY hard to wait for the panel to announce their findings. Can't even FATHOM what it will be like for Floyd & family!! I must say that after watching most of the hearing and reading almost *everything* at TBV (I know, get a life), I feel more confident that the panel will actually deliberate in good faith than I did at the beginning of the hearings. I can hope anyway!

OOOH - just previewed this. Sorry its SO long. Hope it helped those who couldn't get the video today :)

theresa

Hi, from Days Inn by Worlds of Fun in KC!! Easy drive up, I had my young cousin to talk too, and I never see him unless it's close to his birthday or Christmas in Spfld!! I have come to KC, to spend any time with him. He's 19yrs old, will be 20 in July, and doing really well for a kid who lost both of his parents by the age of 7!

Now, I went to the Cub Scout pack meeting tonight! Big night. Tomorrow the youngs ones fly to PA to play baseball, and the older one graduates, and my sister has nothing to wear! And then she flys out Fri am at 7AM to go to PA for 2 and 1/2 days! I'm sorry, moms and dads, but I'm glad I don't have kids! I've never regretted that decision. It may sound selfish, but I've had a hard time raising myself, and I couldn't stand to be that devoted to a person that can drive you mad, and that you can't walk away from!!lol

When we first got here, I checked TBV, and they were getting ready for the closings. I haven't been there yet to see how it went. BUT (IMHO) if the USADA spent their whole time bashing Floyd's anger on the forum, and Will's horrible lapse in judgement, then I think they KNOW the science doesn't hold up!
I've had a rough time sleeping since the hearing started, and I have to remind myself to check for Giro results. I'm there with you guys!! I KNOW how you feel, and you know me too, and that's what so cool about this blog!! I will get more excited the closer it gets to Tour time. I think we need to continue to support the sport, the best way we can, because all this crap makes some people really happy to see the sport suffering! And I want to thumb my nose at them, and say, "Hey, what about baseball/football etc?" We can't lose faith in this beautiful sport!!

You know, I like people getting taken down a peg or two, when they live a privleged life and never had their backs against the wall, and make decisions, good or bad and pay the consequences. Like, say, Paris Hilton.....
But some of the stuff people are saying about Floyd is just unbelievable. Yeah, Greg LeMond's not my favorite retired cyclist; but I just want him to shut up about things he knows nothing about. I don't want evil things to happen to him. I can't stand Geo Bush either, and I just want him to go away, and I still haven't figured out, how he got to be President; TWO TIMES!!! But now, I'm completely off track and can't remember the point I wanted to make!!

My God, my comment is longer than Sara's post and Susie's comment put together!LOL

Camille

So much happened yesterday afternoon and evening I hardly know where to start!

I think Suh did well, although I only had audio... sometimes I wondered if his fast way of talking and throwing out scientific facts fast and furious would be to his detriment. I noticed Young used the slow and plodding I-am-talking-to-idiots kind of speech cadence. I wondered if he was making sure the court reporter got every dot and colon correct, or if he just needed to stretch it out to fill the time. I guess when your main points would sit nicely in the National Enquirer, it's good to talk slowly.

AI -- My Blake-loving daughter and I were happy Blake didn't win, only so that his creativity wouldn't be bound by American Idol's contract for a whole year and no telling how long after. I wonder if Kelly Clarkson is still towing the AI line contractually; I bet she is in some way or another.

I had fun watching the voted-off contestants singing. They sound better since they left, I guess they got a second wind and had something to prove.

Susie, did you watch the LOST finale? I don't think I can stand to go all summer without it. But I was ecstatic to get an email last night saying Deadwood's 3rd season will be available in a few weeks. We don't have HBO so we always lag behind on their shows by one season. But we like Netflix marathons especially in the summer after the good shows are over. I really AM looking forward to the Pirate treasure show though! And I think we'll watch So You Think You Can Dance. Is that the one that had David Hasselhoff as a judge, where the transvestite angel from Russia was on last year and he was sort of a contortionist? He was so sad, crying when they let him come back after . It was pitiful. I thought he was wonderful but he made at least one judge a little uncomfy in his seat, I'm sure, so that judge hit the gong button. (homophobe alert!)

I can't stand the thought of a whole month or more before we hear the arbitration decision. "Well that's too long." (makes me want a bowl of Wolf Brand chili)

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