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« The Rest Of The World | Main | American Idol - The Results »

April 20, 2007

Comments

Amy

Uh oh. The plot thickens...

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-tourdefrance&prov=ap&type=lgns

susie b

Yes, I just read the same story on cyclingnews. Turns out Levi may be the Disco TDF leader yet!

If I was Basso, & really had nothing to do with Fuentes, I would get my DNA tested against those bags pronto! Just to get it out of the way once & for all! I KNOW it is outrageous legally but here we are. What I HOPE does not happen is that it all comes down AGAIN the week before the TDF start. Arghhhhhh! I think that would destroy the Tour & pro-cycling. One year was bad enough, but 2 in a row would be a deathblow to the sport.

susie b

I also have a Jan question for everyone.

As you may remember, I have long admired Jan (& not JUST for his hotness... :) & I was SHOCKED last year when the OP case broke open in the days right before the TDF. I kept hoping he was not involved & STILL kind of hope it's all a big conspiracy or something.

But realistically, I have to admit the facts (as known) look like he was blood-doping. Here's my question. Do you think he's been doing it all along? Or maybe when he thought 2006 was his last chance & he wanted SO BADLY to win & then RETIRE a CHAMPION, that he let himself be talked into it as a way to "help him just in case"...?

I have to tell ya, if a guy like Jan Ullrich "doped" throughout his career, who is known as the 2nd best cyclist of the last 10 years (Lancebaby being 1st of course!), & SO talented, & SO renowned with legs so awesome that statues wept with envy when he walked by, then what does that SAY about the sport? I have long defended cycling & argued that NOT everyone "dopes", but this just makes it harder for people to even let you get one word out, before they roll their eyes at you & call you "ignorant" or "naive".

What do you all think? Was he doing it all along or just that last year, for "insurance" to go out a winner?

One more thing. Technically, the blood bags may show "intent", but it should NOT hold up in any court as "proof" of actually doping. I have long thought & still do think that if PEDs or blood-doping paraphanelia are not found IN a person's house, or ON his person, or IN his body, then there should be NO CASE. Opinions?

Camille

The thing is, Jan was raised in Communist Eastern Germany where they put steroids in baby formula. I can't help wondering if altering his body chemistry was just a way of life for him. But this is just my personal speculation; I have no hard facts about his drug testing history at all. And you know how I feel about Jan.

Matt

Also of note: Susie you mentioned that you wonder how long he did it...well, to get 9 bags of blood from a pro athelte will take a substantial investment of time! I get blood drawn every 2 months..which is how long it takes the body to FULLY recover. So..given the offseason length (less than half a year), and the fact that there is NO WAY he would draw blood to store while training and racing, it does at least show that he was having blood removed over a long period of time (and this doesn't account for any he might have USED during the season! So...there might have been MORE than that at some point in time). 9 bags of blood is a LOT to have lying around. I also have to admit that I 'wonder' about the others...BUT...if YOU were were racing and continually came in 2nd-place, would YOU maybe try SOMETHING to give you a edge and finally beat this guy? (just because somone is better than you doens't mean they dope or cheat, maybe they're just BETTER naturally, or better training!) The fact that all this blood is available might not hold up in court, but it SURELY wasn't there for a rainy day! Too much time and effort (to replenish the red blood cells after each donation). I ride like crap for at least a week each time I donate...can really feel the diff. Thats just my 2 cents worth on this topic.

Janann

That IS INDEED a lot of blood to have stored up. I hate to make judgments from the info that has been reported by the media, but I'm having trouble understanding what other possible reason there would be for that much stored blood...

Good point about the EGermany programs. They were expected to be the best, I think, regardless of what it took. It would be difficult to eliminate that mindset easily.

It does get increasingly difficult to defend the sport to people who are continually bombarded by the media coverage of the doping allegations. Now more OP fallout this weekend. I really wonder what will happen to Basso and the others. It sounds like Discovery believes him and is behind him (a good team to have supporting you), but it seems like riders might just keep getting swept up in this controversy indefinitely. I'd love to see an END to it -- one way or the other.

Janann

OMG! Have you all seen this?!?!?!?
http://www.floydfairnessfund.org/resources/LandisObserverDeniedAccessLNDD.pdf

I was going to say unbelievable...........but I guess ANYTHING USADA and LNDD does at this point is believable....

catherine

Hey, you guys do know that blood doesn't last more than 4 weeks in a liquid state, and you can't freeze it cause the cells burst. So, how could a competeing athlete EVER manage to store 9 units, unless it was for research or for part of the products...but then they would have to process the parts separately and freeze them (you know albumin, plasma, platelets-no can't freeze them- oh, yes cyoprecipitate!). Anyway, no one can store up whole blood or packed cells and infuse them after 28 days. It is unsafe and dangerous!

So, why oh why would they have that many bags-o-blood? Clearly for some other purpose, likely still nefarious, but hey...

And Camille, I thought the same thing about coming up in East Germany. They pounded (no pun) drugs and dope into their athletes. They were punished if they didn't take them. Ever read about the poor gymnists who were anorexic, abused, and couldn't have children once they left the sport? Or how about the hair on the summer athletes (and I don' tmean the men)?

Janann

Good point, Cat! I guess that I DID know about the limited life of stored blood at some point in time, but it hadn't registered with me. Interesting...

Debby

Hi everyone -- thanks for bringing up the different issues regarding Jan. Given what's happening with Floyd, my first instinct now is not to believe the press for anything, but 9 whole bags of blood not stored in a regular medical facility is hard to account for!

Matt

Well, all Jan has to do is come out with a clearly reasonable answer for all that blood. (btw, I just looked it up, the average human has 5 liters of blood, which equates to 10.5 pints...so...9 pints lying around is ALMOST a complete supply...and given how long it would take to donate that much, I would REALLY LOVE to hear an answer!) I'm sure willing to listen!!! Jan??

susie b

I am SO angry & upset over this recent "testing" travesty that I can barely stand it. Until Dickie P's personal mini-me, Travis T, started showing his true colors a few months ago, I had actually believed USADA would keep an open mind so as NOT to unfairly persecute an innocent man. How wrong I was. It seems clear now that they were just biding their time & planned to spring their machinations SO close to the Hearing date that Floyd would have no time to investigate & defend. They've had 9 freaking MONTHS! This all comes down 3 WEEKS before the Hearing?!!

And you KNEW, you just KNEW, the Anti-Doping Cabal was determined to screw Floyd into the ground, no matter what it took. UCLA's equipment being "serviced" at this exact time? Come ONnnnnn. And so what if the WADA code stipulates that you don't test B samples if the A samples tested clear & no longer exist! And was it really a problem that there was NO impartial observer at the test? Well, yeah it was STIPULATED before hand, but who cares, right? And of COURSE, let's do the freakin testing at the very LAB that is now the posterchild of Lab incompetence & can NOT keep ANY result confidential more than a "god damn" nanosecond. (Hey, Dickie P, aren't you thrilled that your "influential" quotes just keep on influencing?) EVERY single person at LNDD that was connected with this recent batch of tests should be FIRED. Maybe THAT would stop the damn leaks.

I really didn't believe the conpsiracy theory before, but now, I think the Ahhh-DAs will do ANYTHING to convict Floyd. Not just their reputations, but their very existence depends on it.

Matt

OK, read THIS that I took from Wikpedia...and if there's any doubt NOW about Jan's intentions...

The term blood doping originally meant literally doping with blood, i.e. the transfusion of RBCs. RBCs are uniquely suited to this process because they can be concentrated, frozen and later thawed with little loss of viability or activity. There are two possible types of transfusion: homologous and autologous. In a homologous transfusion, RBCs from a compatible donor are harvested, concentrated and then transfused into the athlete’s circulation prior to endurance competitions. In an autologous transfusion, the athlete's own RBCs are harvested well in advance of competition and then re-introduced before a critical event. For some time after the harvesting the athlete may be anemic.

Matt

Oh..and then add this, which was at the end of the wikpedia article on blood doping:

At present there is no accepted way of detecting autologous transfusions (using the athlete’s own RBCs) but research is in progress and the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has promised that a test will eventually be introduced. The test method and its introduction date are to be kept secret in order to avoid tipping off doping athletes.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping"

susie b

I do have a funny little anecdote. As most of you probably know, a few weeks ago FFF emailed all the early contributors & said we could also receive a Thank-you gift that the new contributors get. I qualified for a personalized, signed Floyd poster & have been giddily debating the placement of said poster on my office walls ever since. I had not yet received it, but figured they've all been mighty busy fighting the good fight & I could wait. And then TODAY of all days, right after the sh*t hit the fan yesterday, I get an email from a guy's blackberry @ verizon.net wanting to know if I'd gotten my poster! As I wrote on MD, I was SO suspicious! Because of the timing & that USADA wants all our names (sure Senator McCarthy! "Have I now or have I ever been a contributor to the FFF...") & because all the previous emails to me had 'FFF' in the email address. So, I CALLED them in NYC to find out if the guy works there! All is well, but I really don't put it pass USADA to try to intimidate Floyd's supporters!

And I know I sound paranoid but I get fake bank emails all the time & they absolutely look like the real thing. And after observing what they are doing to Floyd, I don't think anything is beneath Traves-ty Tygart & his horde of harassing henchmen.

The great news is my poster is on its way & maybe even a little something "extra" will be thrown in because of the "delay". Ooooohhhweeeee! I can't wait to tell people when they walk into my office that 'yeah, that's my bud Floyd - a future employee of mine...'! :) :)

Janann

You should've asked if he could add "Floyd Landis: Team Gladiator" in the personalized part-LOL. That would be a true conversation piece ;) So.....how is that MD jackpot looking these days?!?

Seriously.....how do you think Floyd puts up with all of this crap without going completely crazy?? TBV sure has been BUSY! I was glad to see Marty get riled up today and put in a call for action from his readers. Not sure if ANYTHING is going to help now, but I think I'll write some more letters just to be doing something about this asinine situation.

Looking forward to AI tonight to provide something lighter in content to occupy my mind!

Janann

So......Basso is done racing for awhile.
http://www.thepaceline.com/members/press_item.aspx?cid=3143
Wonder how long THIS investigation will take -- maybe conveniently through the Giro and Tour??

Matt

I have to admit I 'peeked' at MD's site today, just in time for his rant on USADA (THATS what I used to read his site for!) I even POSTED there for gosh sakes (first time since the dis-invite!)...I wrote an email to Tygart of USADA being as MD conveniently gave us the address...(I posted my email on MD's site)...now I need to address my Congress-peoples with carefully worded letters...and I WILL! (hey...I'm VOTING on AI now...NOTHING is beyong me now!)

Theresa

Cycle Sport has an article on Jan this month. It kinda puts things in perspective regarding his personality. I wouldn't be surprised what "his people" did to him!! He was there puppet and meal-ticket!!
Riis is saying today, that as hard as it was he's glad he cut Basso loose. OP was going to raise it's ugly head again, somehow!!
Did anyone read the article in Daily Peleton, by Ray Cippollini(sp?)? How basically cycling fans are the first to jump on an accused cyclist....so true, and so sad, but he's right on target! Sort of like the Democratic party and the way they eat their young!:)

Theresa

Oh, I emailed TT Tygart. I probably will get watched for criminal intent, since I was angry when I sent it.....that doesn't help the cause at all!

Theresa

Matt, you email was GREAT! Much better that what I came up with!! But Camille's right, hit 'delete' into the trash and dump! I'll bet Congress does the same thing!!

woofdawg

I too fired off a little note to Mr. Travesty, I mean Tygart. I commended him for his herosim in making sure that athletes know their place--and the penalty for having the audacity to stand up to USADA in a quest for such a pathetic, quaint notions as justice or due process. I suggested that a man of his prodigious talents ought to be working in the Justice Department for the esteemed Mr. Gonzalez and others of his ilk.

Then I told him what I really thought, in rather blunt language. It felt good.

Theresa

All right Woofdawg!! You have a way with words, I'll bet it was a keeper!!

catherine

I have written my local politicians, you know congressmen, senators. I know they won't care, but maybe if they hear enough... Jack and I sent a letter to the USADA. Their stupid site doesn't even have the hearings listed. How the hell did this country get so backward? Were we always this way and I didn't notice? Actually that's a stupid and naive thing for an kid of the late 60's and 70's to say. i guess I didn't think we'd be back there again. Silly me.

A guy on MD's site talked about something we mentioned a while back, going to the hearings and speaking out. I think I suggested that Matt go since he is in the vicinity of Pepperdine, but aren't you going to be out of town? God, it is all so depressing aI just can't stand it. The only hope is that FL will take this on as a cause and build real momentum within the sport.I feel so bad that I never knew what Tyler went through, though he didn't have an open process like Floyd.

I finished Crusoes last night. Trinity was long, but I liked it. I wrote to MD and suggested he move it to a different place, like an addendum, or a separate reference. What really surprised me was how fast he ended the book. Everything ended up being too pat and quick. I hope when he publishes it, that is different. It is really remarkable to get to read a book as it unfolds, before it is finished. You could see the changes he has made and they were good. Actually it was quite brave of him to share it with us last winter break.

He responded to my email by the way. I guess I have to forgive him.....(actually I did a while ago).

Matt

Hey Catherine...since I 'peeked' at MD's site 2 days ago (the day of his rant at USADA/TT) I had also noticed in the comments about having people show up down at Pepperdine for the hearing...and I have been thinking about it ever since. I believe the day was May 14th...(thats a Monday)...hmmmm...I know WHERE Pepperdine is but not sure where the hearing will be at...maybe (HOPEFULLY) there would be a LARGE gathering of faithful to guide me if I do go down...(and what will happen...Cosmic Disturbance Boy and the USADA in the same vicinity...not sure how my powers of chaos will react to that). But I REALLY AM thinking about it! (and I also got my Free Floyd shirt in the mail the other day...THAT would be quite the appropriate place to wear it!)

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